I have been told on many occasions that the bible is god's word" and that "god wants me to believe in him and be saved" and that "god has proved his existence to us through his creation" It has also been claimed (by the very same people) that "god is perfect."
Now I know that I often have a hard time getting my point across to some people, sometimes I just can't seem to make people understand what I'm trying to say. This is a problem that is certainly rooted in my imperfection. If I were perfect, any and everything that I attempted to comunicate to anyone, in any way, would be understood instantly . What that person lacked in reasoning skills would more than be compensated for by my perfect ability to comunicate. If someone didn't understand my message to them, then I would have failed in my attempt at comunicating. Can a perfect being fail? of course he can. but only if he wants to!
So, if god is perfect, and has attempted to prove his existence to me in any way, be it through the bible, or his "creation" then he has failed. We are now left with three possible explanations as to why he has failed.
1.) He wanted to fail. (wants me to not believe in him)
2.) He is not perfect.
3.) He does not exist!
Now you tell me, which is it?
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18 comments:
GOD DOES EXIST!
I can say this to you through my own experiences. I EXPERIENCE God every day. If i pray it rarely doesnt come out. And when i am praying i can FEEL that he is very close to me.
This same thing is already been testified by all christian people since the beginning of the humanity.
i don't doubt that you believe that you experience god. muslims also believe that they experience allah. many people believe that they have experienced "hauntings", or "ailen abductions". just because you attribute your experiences to god, does not make it so.
that being said, i have laid out an argument which your comment completely ignores. my guess is because you know it to be sound, and hence have no refutation.
you dont understand the bible good.
God doenst say that the human is perfect. Because he gave the human a free will. The free will to make your own choices. Also the choice how good you listen to the other people. And including the choice if you choose for God or not. God gave that free will because he love us.
And when its said that God is perfect, it means that he is almighty and the most equitable judge. And He is.
Ow and about experiencing God. My prays are rarely DOESNT come out. And every time they come out, they exactly come out the way i asked for. Sometimes by a feeling, sometimes by something tastable. Also a real wonder once. What just really wasnt coincidence.
And on a national christian congress in my country there are also wonders that just cant be coincidence.
For example: during that huge congress there was a storm that was heading over the country. On that congress 60.000+ people were just outside on a huge gras area. The storm was supposed to went over that congress. But when it did, all around the congress was raining very hard, but on the congress the sun was shining. On sattelietimages wheatermans saw an almost perfect cirkel in the storm what they couldnt explain.
you said: "God doenst say that the human is perfect. Because he gave the human a free will."
please read my post "free will: disproving the christian god part 1"
and about your "prayers". this is called "anecdotal evidence" it proves nothing and is worthless in an argument.
It is the way how God works
I dont get why you are trying so hard to disproving something. It is like you almost believe in it. Mabey because God doenst work the way you wanted to be. So that you dont wanted to see His way of work anymore. So i will pray for you.
And, of course, there are no other options other than the three you present.
if you think there are more then feel free to list them.
god doesn't exist because you cannot prove that he does. its up to you to provide evidence of his existence due to the fact that if theres no evidence of somethings existence it doesn't exist an example would be: i have an omnipotent being in my room but i can't prove it so it doesn't exist
About prayer, has anyone took into consideration the correlation between the laws of attraction (or it's business label "the secret") and prayers. They work almost identically. You ask for something, than your deepest level of emotion transcends energy to the universe, where time is irrelevant, bringing it back to you; thus, always giving what you want if you are in the right mind.
Now As far as the phenomena about the rain and the perfect circle at the congress, that is shocking and strikes a fear of the unknown--like many phenomena that we commonly link to religion in one way or another; yet most people right away fear the unknown so immediately they adopt it as ritual or say it is something we will never understand; and once that is stated, some conclude that we must understand that it is the work of our creator for the sole reason of it being unexplained & closely coincidence.
For example, the early Greeks demonstrated this concept rather well. They feared, assuming our historic evidence is accurate, a displeased god. So when they saw phenomena occur, they immediately linked it with the anger or reactions of their creators.
Another example was demonstrated by early tribes like the Mayans and other early human inhabitants. When a solar eclipse occurred, they too did not understand. So how does one react? By sacrificing animals? ... Or believing that since the event has no explanation we should call it a work of God?
.....
What happened later? We realized how the Solar system worked and now it can be explained; thus most do not fear eclipses, nor anything we understand for that matter.
1.) He wanted to fail. (wants me to not believe in him)
2.) He is not perfect.
3.) He does not exist!
4.) You refuse to accept any argument given.
5.) You've come to the conclusion before asking your question
6.) You're setting up the constricting premise for your discussion, allowing only your point of views as valid.
final though, you've given nothing but your opinion in your blog, which is perfectly acceptable, and a very well put together opinion. But the problem lies in you asking us to fight your opinion with our opinion which you've already stated you disbelieve...
Seems Odd to me.
none of your options address the topic at hand.
Have you read The Case Against God by George H Smith? He tackles a wide range of arguments starting by identifying what god (generic idea) is. It is prerequisite to distinguish god from an nonsensical utterance before forwarding any argument as in:
the 1st cause argument, 'supernatural' miracles, the Resurrection and other biblical accounts for His existence (specifically for the Christian God), religious experiences etc.
Heres just a quick one I felt like adding to your blog, which I really enjoyed by the way:
THE LIMITED GOD
(list me attributes and I will prove that your God is lacking omnipotence--just a logical consideration)
If God is A, than he lacks not A, rendering His nature limited.
This is usually a problem for Christians that hold the notion that God is eternal and transcendent.
If God is invisible, he lacks being visible. If He is infinite, He lacks the nature and ability to be finite. If He is immortal he lacks the ability of being a mortal....
One may object and say, well Jesus and God are mortal and immortal by being one in the same... This not only puts to the validity of the bible (from this contradiction) to the test, but also still returns to the original question, what are you calling God and prove that it exits with being self-contradictory. That would take us to the "problem of Evil" that which you wrote about. In which case, again the Christian God falls to irrationality.
(There are many counters like "the unlimited attribute" and "negative and positive theology", but none save the Christian God from falling to irrationality)
A Christian should never say that His God is ineffable or incomprehensible:
Immediately, any other description of their god (as far as prescribing attributes) falls immediately too the ground.
Ineffable, meaning indescribable (or not describable), immediately undercuts anything else the Christian says about their God. "He is omnipotent and omnibenlevolent, and invisible and omniscient, and transcendent, and so on". Hence, God cannot be described if one renders Him ineffable.
Similarly, if one renders God incomprehensible, it leaves wonder how one can list a series of other attributes.
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