the first hebrew words translated as "god" or "the lord" in genesis are El, and Elohim. El is the proper name of a prior middle eastern deity.
Elohim is a plural word in reference to El and his children.
Yahweh or Yaw/Yam is one of the sons of El. along with Ba'al who is also mentioned in the bible.
for the purposes of comparison basically el is the equivalent of the greek god Chronus (creator), where as ba'al is the equivalent of zeus (god of the sky and storms), and yahweh, the equivalent of poseidon (god of the sea).
many of the stories in the old testament are stories of rival tribes (those who worship yaweh as the most high and those who worship ba'al as the most high).
ashera is among the other ugaritic gods and goddesses mentioned in the bible.
just as roman religion was a spin off of greek religion. the judeo-christian/muslim religions are spun off of the ancient ugaritic religion (and others).
the names/words translated in the Old Testament as "god" or "lord" are as follows:
YHVH or YAH, (proper name for a ugarit god) translated into english sometimes as "LORD", sometimes as "god".
ADON, this is the hebrew word that means "lord" and is usually translated as such.
EL, and ELOAH, (proper name for another ugarit god) translated into english as "god". ELOHIM, which means "sons of El" also translated as "god"
ELYON, which means Most High, or supreme, is sometimes translated as such, and sometimes translated as "god" or "lord"
SHADDAI which means Protector/Destroyer, is translated as "god" or "lord"
here are some of the verses in the bible which mention other ugarit gods.
Quote from: KJV
Numbers 22:41
And it came to pass on the morrow, that Balak took Balaam, and brought him up into the high places of Baal, that thence he might see the utmost part of the people
Judges 6:30
Then the men of the city said unto Joash, Bring out thy son, that he may die: because he hath cast down the altar of Baal, and because he hath cut down the grove that was by it.
Judges 6:31
And Joash said unto all that stood against him, Will ye plead for Baal? will ye save him? he that will plead for him, let him be put to death whilst it is yet morning: if he be a god, let him plead for himself, because one hath cast down his altar.
Judges 6:32
Therefore on that day he called him Jerubbaal, saying, Let Baal plead against him, because he hath thrown down his altar.
Judges 8:33
And it came to pass, as soon as Gideon was dead, that the children of Israel turned again, and went a whoring after Baalim, and made Baalberith their god.
Judges 10:6
And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.
Judges 10:10
And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD, saying, We have sinned against thee, both because we have forsaken our God, and also served Baalim.
1 Samuel 7:4
Then the children of Israel did put away Baalim and Ashtaroth, and served the LORD only.
1 Samuel 12:10
And they cried unto the LORD, and said, We have sinned, because we have forsaken the LORD, and have served Baalim and Ashtaroth: but now deliver us out of the hand of our enemies, and we will serve thee.
1 Kings 16:31
And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.
2 Kings 1:3
But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?
2 Kings 17:16
And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
Jeremiah 2:8
The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Hosea 2:8
For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.
Judges 16:23
Then the lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice: for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.
1 Samuel 5:2
When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.
1 Samuel 5:7
And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon our god.
1 Samuel 7:3
And Samuel spake unto all the house of Israel, saying, If ye do return unto the LORD with all your hearts, then put away the strange gods and Ashtaroth from among you, and prepare your hearts unto the LORD, and serve him only: and he will deliver you out of the hand of the Philistines.
1 Samuel 31:10
And they put his armour in the house of Ashtaroth: and they fastened his body to the wall of Bethshan.
Leviticus 18:21
And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
1 Kings 11:7
Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
Jeremiah 32:35
And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
Friday, June 29, 2007
The Problem of Suffering : Disproving the Christian god, part 2
Proof that Yahweh doesn't Exist.
one way in which to prove something doesn't exist is to prove that it's attributes are self contradictory, or, contradictory to the rest of the world.
for example a "square circle" cannot exist because in order to be square it cannot be circular and vice versa.
this is the same type of proof that i offer for yahweh's non-existence. yahweh has three attributes we'll call the omni's. omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. which we will from henceforth call him (for the sake of saving keystrokes) an "omnimax" deity. now, yahweh is credited with creating the universe and everything in it. which makes him a creator deity. so we have the, "omnimax creator deity" which is as impossible as a square circle. for the simple reason that suffering exists. can we agree that suffering exists? can we agree that suffering is a bad thing? for example can we agree that it is a bad thing for a five year old girl to have to die a prolonged death due to cancer? can we agree that pedophilia is a bad thing?
ok. we will now look at epicurus' problem of evil. which i will re-word as the "problem of suffering" for the purpose of this argument.
1.) if yahweh is willing to prevent suffering, but not able to then he is not omnipotent.
2.) if yahweh is able to prevent suffering but not willing to then he is not omnibenevolent
3.) if yahweh were both able (omnipotent) and willing (omnibenevolent) to prevent suffering then there would be no suffering.
since we know there is suffering, we can conclude, there is no yahweh.
most common theodicies (answers to the problem of evil) are reliant on the free will of man which i have already shown to be insufficient given yahweh's omnimax creator status (see, Free Will: Disproving the Christian god, part 1). basically what i'm saying is that if yahweh is an omnimax creator deity, then he knew that his creation and his granting of "free will" would result in suffering. which refers us back to the problem of suffering.
in summation,
yes, i can prove that the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the God that created this world, the God that created you and me does not exist.
one way in which to prove something doesn't exist is to prove that it's attributes are self contradictory, or, contradictory to the rest of the world.
for example a "square circle" cannot exist because in order to be square it cannot be circular and vice versa.
this is the same type of proof that i offer for yahweh's non-existence. yahweh has three attributes we'll call the omni's. omnipotence, omniscience, and omnibenevolence. which we will from henceforth call him (for the sake of saving keystrokes) an "omnimax" deity. now, yahweh is credited with creating the universe and everything in it. which makes him a creator deity. so we have the, "omnimax creator deity" which is as impossible as a square circle. for the simple reason that suffering exists. can we agree that suffering exists? can we agree that suffering is a bad thing? for example can we agree that it is a bad thing for a five year old girl to have to die a prolonged death due to cancer? can we agree that pedophilia is a bad thing?
ok. we will now look at epicurus' problem of evil. which i will re-word as the "problem of suffering" for the purpose of this argument.
1.) if yahweh is willing to prevent suffering, but not able to then he is not omnipotent.
2.) if yahweh is able to prevent suffering but not willing to then he is not omnibenevolent
3.) if yahweh were both able (omnipotent) and willing (omnibenevolent) to prevent suffering then there would be no suffering.
since we know there is suffering, we can conclude, there is no yahweh.
most common theodicies (answers to the problem of evil) are reliant on the free will of man which i have already shown to be insufficient given yahweh's omnimax creator status (see, Free Will: Disproving the Christian god, part 1). basically what i'm saying is that if yahweh is an omnimax creator deity, then he knew that his creation and his granting of "free will" would result in suffering. which refers us back to the problem of suffering.
in summation,
yes, i can prove that the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the God that created this world, the God that created you and me does not exist.
Free Will : Disproving the Christian god, part 1,
"Can you prove the one true God, the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob, the God that created this world, the God that created you and me does not exist?"
This question was posed to me recently. My response is as follows:
Actually, I believe that I can. You see, while most ambiguous deist god concepts can't be disproven because of their elusive nature. Such specific god concepts can infact be disproven.
(I feel it is important to note here that the person who posed this question did indeed ascribe the traits listed below that I'll call "omnimax" to his version of the christian god "Yahweh". I understand that this may not be the case in everyones version of Yahweh.)
I'll start with free will because this is the biggest hurdle most have in understanding the flaw of the omnimax (omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent) creator concept.
(please note I will from time to time be conceding these points for the sake of debate.)
So lets ask the question, is free will compatible with an omnimax creator deity?
My answer, "it doesn't matter, because free will is an illusion."
To understand where I'm coming from, lets go over a few things.
Yahweh (the god in question) is an omnimax creator deity.
He knows all things, and he has the power to do anything. (has infinite options)
He is also, let's not forget, the creator of all things.
That being said, free will is basically free decision making. Which it seems very much that we have. We are free to chose to drink Coke or Pepsi, to run or walk, to "sin" or not to "sin". But what factors go into the decision making process that we use to make these decisions? There are two.
1.) genetics (traits that we inherit from our parents)
2.) environment (the sum of all our experiences and influences up to the point of the decision in question)
Yahweh, had infinite options when creating this world, he could've created it in absolutely any way he pleased. He also had all knowledge of every possible outcome of his infinite choices. He chose this version.
If Yahweh is real, we can not supprise him. Before he said "let there be light" he knew that I would be typing these very words on this very day. He created a world in such a way that my genetics (which he created) and my environment (which he also created) would eventually lead to me deciding to type these words.
In summation:
p1.) Yahweh had infinite options when creating the universe
p2.) Yahweh knew every decision that would ever be made in every posible version of his creation
p3.) Yahweh chose to create this universe, in which the people would make the decisions that he knew they would choose when he decided to create the universe this way.
c.) people are only free to choose what Yahweh knew they would choose when he decided to create the universe this way.
To be continued ...
This question was posed to me recently. My response is as follows:
Actually, I believe that I can. You see, while most ambiguous deist god concepts can't be disproven because of their elusive nature. Such specific god concepts can infact be disproven.
(I feel it is important to note here that the person who posed this question did indeed ascribe the traits listed below that I'll call "omnimax" to his version of the christian god "Yahweh". I understand that this may not be the case in everyones version of Yahweh.)
I'll start with free will because this is the biggest hurdle most have in understanding the flaw of the omnimax (omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent) creator concept.
(please note I will from time to time be conceding these points for the sake of debate.)
So lets ask the question, is free will compatible with an omnimax creator deity?
My answer, "it doesn't matter, because free will is an illusion."
To understand where I'm coming from, lets go over a few things.
Yahweh (the god in question) is an omnimax creator deity.
He knows all things, and he has the power to do anything. (has infinite options)
He is also, let's not forget, the creator of all things.
That being said, free will is basically free decision making. Which it seems very much that we have. We are free to chose to drink Coke or Pepsi, to run or walk, to "sin" or not to "sin". But what factors go into the decision making process that we use to make these decisions? There are two.
1.) genetics (traits that we inherit from our parents)
2.) environment (the sum of all our experiences and influences up to the point of the decision in question)
Yahweh, had infinite options when creating this world, he could've created it in absolutely any way he pleased. He also had all knowledge of every possible outcome of his infinite choices. He chose this version.
If Yahweh is real, we can not supprise him. Before he said "let there be light" he knew that I would be typing these very words on this very day. He created a world in such a way that my genetics (which he created) and my environment (which he also created) would eventually lead to me deciding to type these words.
In summation:
p1.) Yahweh had infinite options when creating the universe
p2.) Yahweh knew every decision that would ever be made in every posible version of his creation
p3.) Yahweh chose to create this universe, in which the people would make the decisions that he knew they would choose when he decided to create the universe this way.
c.) people are only free to choose what Yahweh knew they would choose when he decided to create the universe this way.
To be continued ...
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